| Author |
Message |
    
Vince Yoder
Member
Username: Vinceky
IA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 1
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 8:45 pm: | 
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I finished the rough work on converting my 140 H1 to power steering but took it out for a drive and found that the power steering works great when either lifting or lowering the hydraulic lift while I turn the wheel. However if I try to steer without lifting the deck the power steering is about quarter or half strength.
I should say the way I installed power steering is by mounting a lift cylinder from a 140 parallel to the front axle. I then cut the arm off the steering part that comes back to the steering drag link. I welded a bracket to the back side of the left quick mount bracket for the deck arm. I then used a 4 port steering column from a 318. I had lines made by a hydraulic shop to run from the hydrostat pump to the inlet of the steering column. I then ran the outlet of the steering column to a cooler and from there to the return of the trans pump. The power steering worked great this way but when I installed the tees in line to go to each side of the hydraulic lift valve the system now only works when both the lift and the steering are used at the same time. Sorry for the long post but I know there are a lot of people out there that are doing these kind of swaps. Do I need to change my hydraulic lift valve or what do I need to do to make both systems work all the time? Thanks
also I can't post pics yet but will soon |
Bruce Mahr
Member
Username: Jdmartian
IL
Registered: 7-2008
Post Number: 7
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 9:47 pm: |
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Vince: Why did you install tees in the lines? What lines did you install the tees in, the ones going to your steering cylinder?
Bruce Mahr |
Vince Yoder
Member
Username: Vinceky
IA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 2
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:09 pm: |
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The output side of the trans pump has a tee that sends to both the input of the steering column and the input of the hydraulic lift valve. The return side of the trans pump has a tee that recieves the output of the steering column from the cooler and the out side of the hydraulic lift valve. I looked on jdparts.com for a pic of the hydraulic system on a 4 port 318 but couldn't see how the system cycles fluid. If anyone can tell me what order the 318 hydraulic system is plumbed I think I could get this thing working. Thanks |
Bruce Mahr
Member
Username: Jdmartian
IL
Registered: 7-2008
Post Number: 8
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:15 pm: |
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It sounds as if your hydraulic valve is internally leaking(bypassing) oil then.
Bruce Mahr |
Chuck Van Dusen
Member
Username: Chuckv
OR
Registered: 1-2007
Post Number: 1284
| | Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:59 pm: |
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Vince,
Here is a partial hydraulic schematic of the early 318 with the 4-port power steering and a legend from the drawing. These and a very full description can be found in the TM1590 manual... Sorry for the broken column formatting.
LEGEND FOR HYDRAULIC SYSTEM SCHEMATIC—EARLY 318
1—Hydrostatic Transmission 10—Variable Hydrostatic 17—Steering Valve (4-Port) 24—Front Hydraulic
2—Output (Motor) Shaft Pump 18—Check Valve Outlets—Right Side
3—Hydrostatic Drive Motor 11—Input (Pump) Shaft 19—Oil Cooler 25—Front Hydraulic
4—Transmission Case Drain 12—Steering Wheel 20—Check Valve (2 used) Outlets—Left Side
5—Charge Relief Valve 13—Control Valve Section 21—Hydraulic Control Valve 26—Rockshaft Cylinder
6—Implement Relief Valve 14—Fluid Metering Section 22—Control Valve Spool 27—Rear Hydraulic Outlets
7—Check (Freewheel) Valves 15—Steering Cylinder (Three-Position) (Optional)
8—Charge Pump 16—Drive Link Assembly 23—Control Valve Spool with
9—Filter “Float” (Four-Position)
The same TM also has the later 5-port schematics and you may recall that the 5-port was used so that the steering would work well even when other hydraulic loads were being used. It got first priority on the output of the pump.
Chuck |
Roy Schroeder
Member
Username: Ereed011
Wi
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 2131
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 7:22 am: |
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Vince , you can not T into a hydraulic line.
I did the same thing by trying to ad a second valve for hydro turn in my plow. It only turned when I lifted the plow up or down. I then set it up to run from the tranny to the first valve ,out the first valve to the second valve, out that valve and back to the tranny.Both work as they should now.
I am not familar with the power steering valve, but what your doing there is creating a bypass.
The power steering only works when you use the lift ,because it is shutting off the bypass route you added in there.
You will have to figure out a way to keep everything in series. You can not have two routes for the fluid to go.
I thought too that pressure is pressure , but its not....ha Putting a T in the line only lets it go another direction, instead of what you are trying to control.
I hope this makes sense.
Roy |
Roy Schroeder
Member
Username: Ereed011
Wi
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 2132
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 7:34 am: |
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Vince. What you need to do is come from the out line on the power steering to the lift valve control IN side ,and then out to the cooler.From the cooler back to the tranny. This would be in series.Pressure can not go around anything then.
If you have any questions , email me ,as I do not always read the postings.
Roy
(Message edited by ereed011 on September 02, 2008) |
Vince Yoder
Member
Username: Vinceky
IA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 3
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 9:27 pm: |
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Thanks for all the help. I took it apart tonight and re routed the lines like roy said from the pump to the steering valve then to the lift valve and then to the cooler and back to the pump. I put everything back together and it worked great. Easy power steering with one finger and I can lift the deck without turning at the same time. I figured I would also post some pics in case people were wondering how the cylinder was mounted.
(Message edited by kkortman112 on September 03, 2008) |
Quinten Tritle
Member
Username: Quintenblood_of_green
IN
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 193
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 10:58 pm: |
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WOW! Vince, that looks like it's supposed to be there! Very nice job! How is the response? Is it just as quick as a 318? Once again, very cool.
-Quinten |
Roy Schroeder
Member
Username: Ereed011
Wi
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 2149
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:15 am: |
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Very nice tractor Vince. That looks like it was made for it. I may do that to mine someday.
Roy |
Mike Schiefelbein
Moderator
Username: Dlnw98
MN
Registered: 2-2002
Post Number: 569
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 1:58 pm: |
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Hey Vince,
Very cool!
Any chance we can talk you into pulling the battery & pan, and getting some pics of how the steering valve is mounted? I'd love to see how you fitted and installed the p/s valve in there...
Thanks!
Mike |
Carey Hunt
Member
Username: Oldeerethanme
ny
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 154
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 6:09 pm: |
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Yeah man, that looks simple as all get out. I was thinking about taking a 318 lift cylinder or ps cylinder and rigging up a bracket on the outside of the frame and using the 318 ps valving. I'd like to know how that works with a blower on the front. Or even a loader...Now that I look more, you have those easy steer tires, how would that system work with turfs?
Carey
(Message edited by oldeerethanme on September 03, 2008) |
RONALD J WHITE
Member
Username: Ron_white
NY
Registered: 5-2008
Post Number: 125
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 8:04 pm: |
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Vince,
Looks like you have done a great job !!!
I think that your manual is on top of the fridge, take a look !!
Ron |
jay dorsett
Member
Username: Hogedog
sd
Registered: 11-2006
Post Number: 349
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:22 pm: |
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I was thinking of putting a cylinder mounted on the front axle, like a 400 has, and running it with a 4 port valve. I never thought of what you have done, but yours is WAY better in respects to looking stock, and not having anything in the way for the deck. You may have just started a landside, bud! Pics, please! |
Vince Yoder
Member
Username: Vinceky
IA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 4
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:27 pm: |
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I have a power steering 345 at work that we mow with and the response is a little quicker and the wheel is just as easy to turn. As far as mounting attachments on the front I think it will steer just as good. I worked a while to make sure the length of the arm was just right from the steering bell crank so the cylinder wouldn't push to far or pull to far. So there is just a tiny bit of wasted turn compared to the limits of the factory setup. The power steering valve was hard to fit in. I got the mounting plate from a F910? front deck tractor. It is just 1/4 plate with 4 holes and an open side to slide the steering sector in. I welded that plate to the frame at the right angle. I then enlarged the 4 mounting holes so I could adjust it a little. I thought the steering column was going to have to come up through the petistal on a slight angle but it ended up nearly straight. I had to cut the hydro control tube that runs to a plastic bushing on the frame and weld a bushing to the frame. I don't have it where I can take pictures yet but will later. I did a search on WFM one day and thought I would end up with a cylinder on the outside of the frame but this worked pretty good. I have a 140 H3 that is next on the list for power steering since it only cost about 150 bucks. Thanks again for all the help with the hydraulics. |
Craig Chatterton
Member
Username: Craig2x2
WA
Registered: 5-2007
Post Number: 31
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 7:51 am: |
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What type of cooler are you using - did that come from a 318 also? I am very interested in trying this on my JD300 which is very similar to your 140. Any good sources for a steering column? |
Freddy Man
Member
Username: Knottyrope
MA
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 190
| | Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 12:18 pm: |
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WE need lots of good pics and part numbers if possible. |
jay dorsett
Member
Username: Hogedog
sd
Registered: 11-2006
Post Number: 352
| | Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 5:46 pm: |
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Any new developments, Vince? |
Mike Duwe
Member
Username: Mikeduwe
Wi
Registered: 10-2006
Post Number: 2552
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 7:46 am: |
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What are you using for the steering column end of things? Does it turn as sharp as it did before power steering? |
Richard Chuckry
Member
Username: Richardc
MB
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1704
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 8:49 am: |
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Hey Vince. Really nice job on your P/S conversion. The tractor looks great. When you say there is some wasted turn do you mean the stroke is a little too long on the cylinder?
Is that your 67 or 68 Chevy? I love those trucks.
Richard |
Roy Schroeder
Member
Username: Ereed011
Wi
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 2221
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 9:30 am: |
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Richard, Thats the way I took it. He had more travel than he needed. I think its one of the best set ups I have ever seen. Very clean and simple.
Roy |
jeremy benton bryant
Member
Username: Benton
al
Registered: 3-2005
Post Number: 295
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 2:33 pm: |
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Nice setup with that power steering there. Thought about putting power steering on my 300 loader,if I do I'll probably go this route rather than the cylinder on the outside of the frame. This looks easier to do. |
Richard Chuckry
Member
Username: Richardc
MB
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1706
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 6:20 pm: |
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I guess it's slower because of it's diameter compared to the cylinders they use on the outside of the frames on other p/s tractors.
Jeremy! Good to see you are still around.
Richard |
jeremy benton bryant
Member
Username: Benton
al
Registered: 3-2005
Post Number: 297
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 12:29 am: |
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Richard
Yeah I'm still here. Been busy workin on the living quarters in my new shop/pole barn. Bought me a tractor also,though I ain't picked it up yet. It's a new 3203 with a 300cx loader,5 foot finishing mower and 5 foot box blade. Got it all for under $20,000. I'm excited about getting it. It should be ready on the 30th of this month which just happens to be my birthday (32). The 3203 is the basic machine in the 3000 series, doesn't have all the bells and whistles but is really all I need. I did get the heavier duty loader though. The basic loader is a 300. I'll still use my little 300 and loader though for the small loads. |
jeremy benton bryant
Member
Username: Benton
al
Registered: 3-2005
Post Number: 298
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 12:38 am: |
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Richard
Forgot to mention. I'll be sellin my 430 soon. If you'd like to take a nice Sunday drive from Canada to Alabama to buy it I'll throw in a free John Deere hat. |
Jeff Kerr
Member
Username: Blazer
PA
Registered: 9-2006
Post Number: 217
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 7:19 am: |
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That is s super nice job. It is so neat and tucked in like it was factory original. You should be proud of that one. That is the very first power steering conversion I have seen on a 140.
I am betting there will be more folks following your lead. That is about all the 140s lacked was power steering. I have read about thrust bearings on the spindles and I have tri-ribs to help on mine but they still steer hard, not real hard but more than we like. You have built the real fix for them.
Now what did I do with that extra rock shaft.... |
Vince Yoder
Member
Username: Vinceky
IA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 5
| | Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 10:17 pm: |
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Sorry I haven't checked responses for a while. The steering column is from a 318 and is the 4 port style but either could be used. The cooler I used was from advanced auto parts and is a Hayden part. It is about 12" long by 6" wide. I now have it adjusted so the steering is sharper then it was from the factory. I can push the steering arm to each side of the stop that is welded to the frame. I made it so the cylinder stops just before it would hit the stop so nothing bends or breaks. Since I built this I mowed the yard twice and if feels like a new tractor. The steering is so smooth and really quick. I also built a front weight bracket that will hold about 250 pounds and will let you guys know how it handles the weight. Thanks for all the response. I am very proud of it. Every ten times you try something big one will work and the others are in the corners of the garage. |
Carey Hunt
Member
Username: Oldeerethanme
ny
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 159
| | Posted on Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 8:47 am: |
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Vince,
We'd all like to see some close up pics of how you made the steering column fit and also some of the plumbing under the battery pan. Personally, I would like to see some dimensions of the bracket you used to secure the cylinder to the frame and the length you came up with on the steering arm. Those are all important things to know.
Another thing to keep in mind, by looking at the pics you took, is would this "kit" work with an H3 tractor, and an old style rear end.
Carey
(Message edited by oldeerethanme on September 14, 2008) |
nick
Member
Username: Nic_a_bod
WI
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 1
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 7:11 pm: |
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I'd like measurements on brackets, I've been looking for a power steering setup off of a 318 or similar to put on my 140 when I tear it down, but this looks just as good. |
Richard Chuckry
Member
Username: Richardc
MB
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1720
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 12:30 am: |
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Vince (and Moderators). Once you get more pictures and hopefully some measurements etc. like guys have requested I think this thread should be a keeper in the Technical Forum. You've got a great idea there. If my current 140 wasn't so far along in the resto I would do the same thing. It will have to be the next one up on the Rotisserie.
Richard |
Robb Kruger - This is my kinda place.
Board Administrator
Username: Robb318
MN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 2254
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 9:48 am: |
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Done deal guys... someone shoot me a note when you want it permanently archived. |
Ted Hoberg
Member
Username: Tedhoberg
CA
Registered: 9-2003
Post Number: 168
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 2:32 pm: |
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Vince - Congratulations, you have engineered an extremely elegant solution to the addition of power steering - better than some JD power steering applications I can think of! Guess I'm going to have to add a 140 to the herd because of all the neat things that can be done to them. |
Craig Chatterton
Member
Username: Craig2x2
WA
Registered: 5-2007
Post Number: 42
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 1:42 pm: |
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just bringing this back to the top - hoping to get some better pics of the mounting of both the steering column, and the two ends of the hydraulic cyl. Measurements would be great! |
Freddy Man
Member
Username: Knottyrope
MA
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 230
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 1:58 pm: |
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We need better pics and measurements! |
jay dorsett
Member
Username: Hogedog
sd
Registered: 11-2006
Post Number: 424
| | Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 9:41 pm: |
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Sure was hoping for more info/measurements/pics on this thread. Just bringing it back up top to see if anything happens with it. |
bj jones
Member
Username: Lazypineapple
tx
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 14
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 6:15 am: |
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Vince, your a genius
no wonder those valves go for so much on ebay |
David Hummel
Member
Username: Dave_hummel
IL
Registered: 11-2008
Post Number: 4
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 5:43 pm: |
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Glad you guys brought this back up. Never would have seen it otherwise, awesome p/s conversion, cant wait for a few more pics and measurements, will putting p/s on my H3! Vince dont hold out on us friend. |
Loren Vosberg Jr
Member
Username: Lorenjr
mn
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 347
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 6:24 pm: |
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Vince,
I just put power steering on my 317 and i use the same cylinder that you did. how quick does yours respond? How many turns of the wheel does it take to go from full left to full right? |
Carey Hunt
Member
Username: Oldeerethanme
ny
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 172
| | Posted on Sunday, January 04, 2009 - 7:29 pm: |
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I'm gonna bump this back up...
Any new developments? |
jay dorsett
Member
Username: Hogedog
sd
Registered: 11-2006
Post Number: 457
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 9:34 pm: |
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Loren-- got any pics and results from your 317-- looks like we're not gonna get any other response on the 140. |
Craig Chatterton
Member
Username: Craig2x2
WA
Registered: 5-2007
Post Number: 76
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 9:18 pm: |
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I would like to perform this same conversion on my JD300 tractor. I have the opportunity to purchase a 5 port steering column, and was wondering if some brave soul could draw a quick picture of how to "plumb" such a thing? |
Loren Vosberg Jr
Member
Username: Lorenjr
mn
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 407
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 12:37 am: |
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Jay, I just noticed your question. My power steering actually works pretty good but i need to find a different cylinder. |
Rick Goodwin
Member
Username: R_goodwin
MI
Registered: 12-2004
Post Number: 131
| | Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 9:38 pm: |
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Loren, Did you ever find a different cylinder? and what kind of cylinder did you use?
Rick |
Loren Vosberg Jr
Member
Username: Lorenjr
mn
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 451
| | Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 3:52 pm: |
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Rick, I havent found a new cylinder yet. I havent really looked though. I used a rock shaft cylinder and that is a little to small. |
