| Author |
Message |
    
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 273
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 8:23 pm: | 
|
I have been having on and off issues with my font PTO. Sometimes it will work OK, other times the ammeter will go negative and then the engine will die about 4 seconds after that. I was reading some other threads today and saw a picture that made me wonder if my PTO is missing something. Is the coil of wire supposed to have a coating on it like the picture below to keep it from grounding/shorting out? Mine is bare. If so, is there a poor man's fix to this rather than buying a new PTO for $300?
 |
allan mullen
Member
Username: Al_m
on
Registered: 6-2009
Post Number: 118
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 9:00 pm: |
|
Tony,I a lucky enough to have had a friend who worked at a electronic manufacturing factory,and gave me what is known as "potting compound".I used it to coat the windings on my 140 a couple years ago.Works fine.I have also been told shellac will help.
AL |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 275
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 12:06 pm: |
|
So do I need the coating on my PTO? Is it supposed to be there? |
Mike Loftus
Member
Username: Mike_l
KY
Registered: 7-2008
Post Number: 145
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 1:35 pm: |
|
Tony,
The coating on my PTO was nearly gone. The coating protects the coil from damage. I carefully removed the loose material and then checked the resistance of the coil from the lead wire to ground. As I recall the resistance should be between 3 and 4 ohms. If you have the coil housing removed be careful of the coil wire on the backside of the housing. Mine was good, so I mixed up a batch of slow setting epoxy and poured it into the housing until it was level. I would also check your wiring harness for a possible short to ground in the PTO circuit.
Filled with epoxy. I mixed it too fast and had a lot of air bubbles.
Passed the wrench test
 |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 276
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 8:35 pm: |
|
Mike-- thanks for the pictures. I will go to the hardware store and see what kind of epoxy I can find. |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 277
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 - 8:23 pm: |
|
OK, I clear coated my coil, but I don't think that is the problem anymore. I reassembled and can get it to work, but if I adjust the air gap to .020, and then put the last collar and bolt on tight enough so it won't wiggle off, my air gap is gone!
In the pic below, I tighten the 4 bolts circled in red so they are about flush with the bolt. I then get a .020 gap between the pully and the rotor. Then when I put the thick collar (manual calls it a bushing) on and tighten the bolt so it won't fall off, the gap is gone and my PTO is permanently engaged. What am I doing wrong?
 |
allan mullen
Member
Username: Al_m
on
Registered: 6-2009
Post Number: 120
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 7:38 am: |
|
Tony
I am not clear by your wording what exactly you are doing.I mike's picture above you see 4 bolts and 4 studs.The 4 bolts are tightened to the block.The four studs have springs on them and the nuts are tightened evenly until the air gap is achived,as measured through the slots in the sheet metal.
Could the coller be burred and binding?
Hope this helps
AL |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 278
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 8:13 am: |
|
Allan,
So I need to tighten down the 4 corner nuts until I get the right gap, and THEN put on the bushing and bolt (in red sqaure above). |
allan mullen
Member
Username: Al_m
on
Registered: 6-2009
Post Number: 122
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 8:23 am: |
|
Tony,I believe the adjustment is done last |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 279
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 8:35 am: |
|
That is where I am confused then. If I tighten the bolt in the red square above until it is just tight enough that it won't wiggle off when the tractor is running, all of the play is gone from everything else on the shaft . . . it is all compacted together and the pto is permanently engaged. |
allan mullen
Member
Username: Al_m
on
Registered: 6-2009
Post Number: 124
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 9:01 am: |
|
Wish I could help more.I would take it all back apart making sure all is assembled in the correct order and nothing is binding.With all parts assembled and adjusted the outer sheetmetal piece should be "floating" on the springs.
Good luck
AL |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 280
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 1:55 pm: |
|
I did some searching in the WFM archives and found this thread from 2005 http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/335/61596.html?1109131196 that is exactly what my problem is.
The previous owner of my 140 had a new short block put in back in 1995, so who knows if it had a boss originally or not. I think I am going to stop at the hardware store and make a custom collar/spacer. |
jason halouska
Member
Username: Halouska1
NE
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 35
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 4:29 pm: |
|
Tony, I had some issues on my 318 that I couldn't figure out, here is what I found and it kind of matches your issues.
On a 317 I have there is a thin washer/bushing between the armature disk (the friction disk attached to the pulley) and the rotor (friction disk that covers the field coil) without this there may not be enough space between the two disk thus creating the effect of mechanically binding them together when you put the crank bolt in (red square).
On my 318 I had the exact same issue as you, a bit different clutch with a few different parts. There was no bushing inbetween the two friction disks, however mine bound just like yours. On the crank itself there is a shoulder that allows the rotor to only go back so far, so it doesn't rub on the block. My shoulder was farther back on the crank than what the rotor could reach and I had lost a spacer washer that was fairly thick, maybe 1/4 inch. Without it the rotor rested on the field coil itself and wore it down to the wires and fried it. I found that without it the rotor and armature bound together.
I would take the unit off all of it, reassemble the field coil to the block but do not completely tighten it down. Then put the rotor over the coil, the coil may be off just a bit so that the rotor does not completely seat on the crank thus taking up too much space on the crank causing the armature to bind against the rotor.
When you push the rotor all the way on the crank it should not touch the coil mounting flange and should not be bound up. after this is done you can tighten the coil mounting bolts completely. Then slide the armature on the crank, with the springs on the studs and put the crank bolt in. On my 318 there was a keyway in the rotor and the armature shaft that the woodruff key has to engage on both, maybe your is different in that aspect I don't know. after the snout bolt is tight install your locking nuts on the studs and adjust your air gap.
I hope this helps as we are speaking of two different PTOs but the same problem. |
Ken Shelby
Member
Username: Thunder_clouds
WA
Registered: 6-2007
Post Number: 143
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 4:50 pm: |
|
Believe it or not, I am trying to sort this same issue out. Have you seen this on the WFM file server? http://www.wfmfiles.com/download/140_Installing_PTO_Clutch(AM38532).pdf Did yours have numbers 5 and six? From the parts diagram it looks like all the ogura uses them, but the installation guide said it depends on you block.
 |
Tony Schroeder
Member
Username: Ts_hunter
MN
Registered: 5-2009
Post Number: 281
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 6:10 pm: |
|
I have 5 and 6, and now that I think of it, that is about how much I am off. Maybe I should try to assemble it with out them. |
Ken Shelby
Member
Username: Thunder_clouds
WA
Registered: 6-2007
Post Number: 144
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 7:01 pm: |
|
I didn't have them, but I was looking at the parts drawing, and it led me to believe thy should have them, so, I installed them as per the parts drawing. Well, I ended up taking them out, and now I was able to adjust it fine. BTW, I have the recessed oil seal block.
Good luck, now I am off to work on the governor, always something ya know! |
Mike Loftus
Member
Username: Mike_l
KY
Registered: 7-2008
Post Number: 146
| | Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 7:19 pm: |
|
Tony,
If you haven't already found this information on installing the PTO coil, try this link to the WFM Files.
www.wfmfiles.com
The link directly to the file dosn't work, but scroll down to the 140/3xx (early series-closed frame) section and look at the PTO coil installation. |
