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31 Tiller belt

Weekend Freedom Machines » The WFM Archives » Restoration Forum - Gear Drive Tractors Archive » 31 Tiller belt « Previous Next »

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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 151
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 9:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I spent several hours today trying to get my 31 tiller to work on my 210. I replaced the front belt (from the intermediate drive to the pto) with a 58 inch belt that I picked up from Rural King. The front belt that I got with the tiller was damaged. The new one seemed to work fine.

I did not replace the rear belt that goes from the tiller to the intermediate drive. Once I put the twist in the rear belt, it did not want to come off anymore. The problem is, I think my rear belt is stretched. I measured it at Rural King at 115 inches. When I have it mounted there is a lot of slop in the rear belt and very little play in the front belt. I adjusted the rear idler pulley all the way down and tried moving the front idler in and out. When I engage the pto the belts barely want to turn but the tiller turns very freely along with the intermediate drive.

There seem to be quite a few factors and I'm not sure what the culprit is. One of the things I did notice when removing the rear belt was that the idler pulley seemed really tight to turn when it was all the way down, almost as if it was binding. Anyway, once the pto is engaged, the pulleys, belts and tiller turn, but quite slowly. There is a smell of burned rubber after a few seconds and if I put the tiller into the ground, even if it is only going in about an inch, everything stops. Anyone have any hints or ideas?

My hope was the rear belt is stretched and a new belt from JD will take care of it. I fear this isn't the case now and wonder if there isn't a problem with the rear idler.

Steve
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Dave Burgess
Member
Username: Jdtractors
IL
Registered: 10-2004
Post Number: 49
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Steve
Sorry you are so much trouble getting the tiller going.I will have to ask the another fellow about the 200 series tiller.I have used them,but I am no expert with them.Everything seemed to turn freely.It sounds like it's something in the idler pulley.After running the tiller,are the idler pulleys warm.Are the Rural King belts the same Face Width and V-Depth.I know when you use Non-Deere belts,they give you more problems then they are worth.I will get back with you.If you don't have any success figuring out the problem,I will take a day off of work and drive over and fix it or make it right with,and bring it back home.
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Gary Behm
Member
Username: Back_blade
Wi
Registered: 2-2004
Post Number: 968
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve,
Do yourself a favor and use JD belts,the primary belt {PTO to intermediate drive} is M47770 and measures 57.6".The secondary belt {intermediate drive to tiller} is M47771 and measures 115.3".As you can see the belt you just put on is almost a half inch longer and non JD belts just don't last,others can tell you this also.
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 154
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary,

I bought both a 57 and 58 inch belt. Went back for the 57 inch belt this afternoon. I probably will follow your advice though. The frustration comes with wanting it to work, but not taking time to get the correct jd belts. This reminds me, I need to post in the want ads for a 31 tiller manual, or just order one along with the correct belts for the tiller.

Dave,

There is no need for that. I am quite pleased with the tiller. I figured out the lift mechanisms and how the adjustment knob works. I'm not really in a hurry. I just got it put on earlier this week then got back to trying to get it working today. It will work eventually, I'm sure. I will just have to try a few different things.

One thing I have not tried yet is to leave the front belt off and go ahead and adjust the rear belt and make sure it spins freely. Of course, now that I think about that, the tension that the front belt provides won't be there and I still won't be able to tell if the rear idler is the problem. I may want to take it off and see if it can be lubed or adjusted.

I'll get there. Again, don't think I am upset about the tiller. I know it was a great deal and have no desire to get rid of it. It will eventually work right I'm sure. I could simply have a belt wrong or something.

One of the things I did notice is that the front belt rubs pretty hard on the belt guide making me think I may have a problem there. I tried moving the belt below the guide but it rubs there too. I really need a good picture or diagram of the front belt. Someone posted a picture in another thread I have about a intermediate drive spring, but it doesn't quite show what I need.

Steve

Steve
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 155
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Gary, it was you that posted the picture. Now that I look at it, I am more convinced that something is up with the front belt. Do you see the guide below the innermost and front pulley? My belt is rubbing hard against the bottom of that no matter if I put the 57 or 58 inch belt on. Care to guess why that would be?

I have went anywhere from having the adjustment knob backed off to the point of the spring hanging down loose, to the point of having it tightened all the way up. Luckily I did'nt burn through one of the kevlar belts I bought. I may want to take a closer look at that tomorrow. A few shots with the camera may help too.

Steve
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deano wallin
Member
Username: Deanop
mn
Registered: 12-2005
Post Number: 50
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 8:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve..I bought a tiller yesterday..31 tiller..It didn't have the front belt, so I'm going to town in about an hour...I spent around 4 hours hooking it up/changing over things..Mine is mounted on a 112 with electric lift..I don't have a manual for tiller either..I'll let you know how mine works or doesn't this afternoon...I had to reverse a tire on the right side cause my tire / rims are too wide..Anyone have this problem...The long belt I had a little trouble with until I loosened the idler...I measured the front belt with twine, so i'm glad to see you guys posted the size..We will see how close my measuring is....deanop
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 156
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 8:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deano,

Good luck with the tiller.

OK. Guys, here is an obvious question that could be the root of my problem. Is the idler on the rear supposed to move freely up and down, or is it supposed to be locked into place?

Here is an image of the primary belt. Notice the angle of the guide and the belt that is on it.

Primary Drive
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Edward H. Lincoln
Member
Username: Ed_lincoln
Wa.
Registered: 7-2003
Post Number: 579
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All you need to do is loosen the bolt thru that front sheave and swing that belt guide away from the belt. That is were the burning rubber smell is coming from.
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Edward H. Lincoln
Member
Username: Ed_lincoln
Wa.
Registered: 7-2003
Post Number: 580
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You also have the early style intermediate drive. It should have the flat bar mounted in the 2 slotted holes (in your picture)with the spring pulling on the intermediate drive.
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deano wallin
Member
Username: Deanop
mn
Registered: 12-2005
Post Number: 51
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve..i had to use a 58" belt,,,the 57 was too small..the tiller works grear...i'm sending some pix...The first picture is what mine looks like....I don't know if I follow what your problem is..I just hooked up the belt, and put some tension on the spring with the front, and kept the cover off to make sure nothing was binding...
belt
the 2nd picture is after one pass this morning...
first pass
and the last is 3rd pass...
final
i'm in sandy soil and it tilled it like nothing...I can send any pix you want..or try search and type in model 31....i THINK Gary posted some manual instructions in a couple of different places....deanop
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deano wallin
Member
Username: Deanop
mn
Registered: 12-2005
Post Number: 52
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 3:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more thing steve,,,i tried the 57" belt, and it would've worked but that pulley with the spring on it would've been pulled too far back, like the way i think it looks in your picture..I think you have to do what edward says and loose that belt guide and move it cause its pinching or else go with the 58" belt...hope it helps..deanop
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Gary Behm
Member
Username: Back_blade
Wi
Registered: 2-2004
Post Number: 970
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve,
Try this,loosen up the belt from the PTO so that the intermediate drive can swing towards the rear.Loosen up the idler pulley next to the rear tire, if not already done,put the belt on,then push down on the idler pulley and tighten it up,it should not move up and down.Then tighten up belt from the PTO.
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Gary Behm
Member
Username: Back_blade
Wi
Registered: 2-2004
Post Number: 971
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 6:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve,
Here is a pic of my intermediate drive,you can see the bar at the top that Ed mentions,which limits the swinging of the intermediate drive.It appears in your pic that it is swinging forward,that is why I suggest to mount the belt to the tiller first,then tighten the belt from the PTO,this should add tension to both belts.
intermediate drive
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 159
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ed,

I owe you. 2 minutes and it was fixed. Just rubbing up against the guide was causing me all the problems. Sometimes I miss the obvious. I didn't realize it was adjustable. Here I am on the first pass just tilling a couple of inches deep. I eventually went to about 5 or 6 inches on my second pass.

Weekend Freedom machines and the fine people who post here are wonderful. Thank you so much.

Steve

210 tilling with 31
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 160
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks also to Gary, Deano and especially to Dave for selling me a great tiller at a great price.

Thanks one and all.

Steve
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Dave Burgess
Member
Username: Jdtractors
IL
Registered: 10-2004
Post Number: 54
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 3:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steve,Looks like you are having fun.Glad to see it was a easy fix.That was a good observation by Ed.Once he pointed it out,it was obvious that was the problem.I have done the same thing before.I was mounting the mule drive and deck on the 318,getting ready to mow.Turned on the PTO and the smell of burning belt and the deck turning slow.It took me a hour of looking to I figured it out.I was spinning the pulleys thinking I had a bad deck bearing.Here I had slipped the drive belt over the belt guide pin on the mule drive.Couldn't see it because of the metal cover on the mule drive and never even thought it would be something that simple.
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Scott Dalmas
Member
Username: Sask112
Sk.
Registered: 8-2005
Post Number: 8
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never hooked-up the tiller on my 112, #31 tiller. I cannot figure it out! I had to replace the primary belt, and got that done, but cannot figure the tiller belt, where it goes to. It pains me to ask, at the risk of looking like an idiot, but i have nothing to work from, and thus no idea. Where does the other end of the tiller belt connect to?
Scott
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Edward H. Lincoln
Member
Username: Ed_lincoln
Wa.
Registered: 7-2003
Post Number: 587
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary Behm has a picture of the intermediate drive hanging under his 112 just a few post above. The primary belt is hooked to the larger sheave under the tractor, the secondary belt goes on the smaller sheave(in the picture) needs to be run in a figure 8 or the tiller will go back-wards.
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Scott Dalmas
Member
Username: Sask112
Sk.
Registered: 8-2005
Post Number: 9
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the intermediate drive have to be moved, if the tractor was running a snowthrower, which is now disconnected, to run the tiller? The intermediate drive on my tractor is farther forward, than the one in the picture. I assume that I have to move mine.
Scott
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Gary Behm
Member
Username: Back_blade
Wi
Registered: 2-2004
Post Number: 979
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,
Here is another pic of what an intermediate drive looks like,you would need one of these to make the tiller work.This one gets fastened to both sides of the tractor frame where the mower deck arms attach,just below the foot rest.Some are made to fasten to one side only.
intermediate drive
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Roger Henning
Member
Username: Woodpecker41
WI
Registered: 3-2002
Post Number: 672
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 7:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gary from what Scott said I think he may have a round fender tractor and may be talking about the jackshaft. Roger
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Edward H. Lincoln
Member
Username: Ed_lincoln
Wa.
Registered: 7-2003
Post Number: 588
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

His profile says 74 112. He must not have an intermediate drive for his tiller. Scott: If the tiller is going on your 74 112, you must have an intermediate drive like the one Gary has a pic of.
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Gary Behm
Member
Username: Back_blade
Wi
Registered: 2-2004
Post Number: 980
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roger,
I suspect what Scott is calling an intermediate drive are the pulleys where the turn knob on the front of the tractor adjusts the belt tension on the primary belts.From his profile I believe that he is talking about a 1974 112.
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Scott Dalmas
Member
Username: Sask112
Sk.
Registered: 8-2005
Post Number: 10
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As it turns out, I did not have the intermediate drive, as the dealer took it off the tractor, while it was in for a motor rebuild. The tiller was hooked-up, when I KABANGED the motor, and the dealer hooked-up my blower, and disconnected the tiller. In the process, they removed the intermediate drive, and the belt, and placed them on the shelf. I phoned them today, after reading youse guyses responses, and found my missing parts. Thanks for the help, as I would have put the tiller belt on straight, and then wondered what was going on! Once again, a rookie gets great advice,
Scott
P.S. It is a 74 112!
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Steve Small
Member
Username: Smalltime
IN
Registered: 4-2004
Post Number: 166
Posted on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 - 7:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scott,

I hadn't checked back here in a few days. I'm glad you got that worked out.

Steve
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Nate Hodges
Member
Username: Hunter
IL.
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 1
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 6:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
I'm new to the weekend freedom machines. I have a '73 110 with tiller. I am looking for the Intermediate Drive for a 31 tiller.If anyone would be able to help me with this it would be great help.

Nate
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Will Atherton
Member
Username: Willin_in_nd
North Dakota 58344
Registered: 7-2005
Post Number: 629
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 8:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nate, first of all, let me be the first one to welcome you aboard the WFM site!
For best results for finding your intermediate drive parts, post a "wanted to buy" in the classified section. You'll have a better chance of getting a response there.
Again, welcome aboard!

'Nuf said, Will in Lakota
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Scott Dalmas
Member
Username: Sask112
Sk.
Registered: 8-2005
Post Number: 12
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to all for posting the pictures of the intermediate drive, as well as shots of how the belts run. Without those photos, I would still be under that tractor, staring at it!
Scott
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jeff buesing
Member
Username: Jbuesing
MI
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 1
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i just wanted to post a thanks to all who posted here. its very helpfull i think i can get my tiller up and running now.
here is my 112 i just picked up
now to find some info on its age and size model etc..112 pic
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Lowell H. Getz
Member
Username: Lhg110
IL
Registered: 6-2004
Post Number: 816
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeff, it appears to be a patio tractor. Pretty cool. Your serial number tag should be around where the key is. To the upper left of it. Also welcome to WFM. You are going to find a wealth of information here.

Lowell H.

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