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Wiring Schematic for Vanguard 23hp

Weekend Freedom Machines » The WFM Archives » Restoration Forum - Hydrostatic Tractors Archive » Wiring Schematic for Vanguard 23hp « Previous Next »

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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 143
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 1:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know where to locate the wiring schematic of the Briggs Vanguard 23hp twin? I presumed it would be in the manual they sent with the engine but it is not. I have searched the B&S site with no luck. It's very simple but would really like to have one. The model number is
386447-0079. Appreciate any help, Thanks Dan
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Matthew Wonsavage
Member
Username: Matt87
MI
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 36
Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 5:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Dan. I was just looking at my briggs and stratton repair manual and they dont have a wiring schematic. They tell/show you how to identify the wires and what they are but no actual scematic. I picked up this book online for about $35. No more than that. The B&S P/N for the manual is 272144. Anything specific your looking for I might be able to help you with. Matt.
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 144
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 5:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Matt, I am repowering my 420 and am ready to start the wiring. I have the tractor schematic but the Vanguard I bought had a key switch and starter. I think I know what each wire goes to but just wanted to be sure. Seems odd that Briggs does not have this ready and available. I'd specifically want to know which is the coil + wire and the output from the regulator.

Thanks, Dan
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Roger Henning
Member
Username: Woodpecker41
WI
Registered: 3-2002
Post Number: 5872
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 8:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan Briggs expects most people to use the key switch that is on the engine not make their own. Roger
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Matthew Wonsavage
Member
Username: Matt87
MI
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 37
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Dan. I got my engine from jim and it came with two wires that connect to your wiring harness. The third one I had to run for the oil pressure switch. One wire is red and labeled voltage regulator, the other is white and labeled ignition. Then I ran my own brown wire for the oil switch. There should be a red wire from your regulator and a white one for the coil. I don't know how much jim changes or messes with on these motors before he ships them out. I'm guessing he doesn't do anything with the wiring. The white wire too traces back to a relay on mine as well. If your looking to use the same spade type terminals, they are available at carquest I know for sure and appear to be a GM type. The P/N is CG8 for the male and CG7 for the female. They should also be able to hook you up on the extraction tool as well. Hope this helps. If not, Ill be back on later if you post something else. Matt.
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 145
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 5:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Roger for your insight.

Thanks Matt. Today I traced all the wires that come out to the switch and have made a schematic that will mesh with the 420 wiring. Did your engine have a oil pressure switch? I didn't see any wire leading to one. Maybe this is an option that did not come with my model. Can tell me where it is located on the engine? I'm sure I can add one. Thanks a lot, Dan

P.S. When I'm done I will publish a schematic for the repower in case others don't want to use the switch on the engine.

Dan
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Matthew Wonsavage
Member
Username: Matt87
MI
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 38
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 6:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mine did not have a oil switch. I bought a new one from Deere. Mine came with a oil cooler and the mount has a 1/8 inch pipe outlet. I put the switch there and ran the wire through the sleeve for the fuel solenoid (to keep things neat) and went into the harness from there.
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 146
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 8:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Matt, You don't by chance have a pic of it do you? I have the oil cooler as well. I suspect there are other sources as well as Deere for the sensor. Thanks Dan
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 147
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 8:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt, Do you know if the sensor would be the same as used on the Onan B43E on a 318? I have one of those!

Thanks, Dan
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Andre Blanchet
Member
Username: Ab318
QC
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1361
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,
The Onan need 12v (pink 830 for the 318) at the coil to run.
Most new engine have their own "voltage generator" for the coil.
As soon as the flywheel begin to turn, they begin to generate voltage for their coil.
So they don't need any external power source to run.
To stop the spark, my Honda, and many other, need a connection between the "kill diodes" and the ground (-).
If your's is similar, check at the key switch if one of the connector is connected to the ground at the OFF position and open at the RUN and START position.
If so, the wire connected to this tab is your "kill diodes".
For my 318 I add a relay with NC contact with his coil connected to the pink 830 wire for the safety switches.
The NC contact of the relay is connected to the ground and the other side to the "Kill diodes".
Also the Honda have a gas cutoff solenoid valve and need power at START and RUN position.
Andre
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Matthew Wonsavage
Member
Username: Matt87
MI
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 39
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 9:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes your old switch will work. The one I used is for the 316 and 318. Probably the same one too on the 420. The P/N is HE309-0546. It is about $25.
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Matthew Wonsavage
Member
Username: Matt87
MI
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 40
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 9:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Finally figured out how to post pictures. A brass street elbow would work too. I added a tee in hopes to add a bypass filter in the future. A bit excessive I know but I'd like to protect my investment.





(Message edited by treed on June 22, 2011)
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 149
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt, Thanks so much for your help. I'm curious why you added the "T" instead of just putting the sensor in place of the plug? Is there a need for the plug?
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 150
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Matt,
I now just saw the rest of your words regarding the bypass.
About pictures:
If you place your curser after the picture tag in your text and hit enter. That will line up all your pictures in the frame and not cause your text to trail off on the left.
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 151
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andre, Thanks for the heads up. I will double check but today when I traced it all out I did not find any kill circuit like I have see on some Kohlers. This one the NC contact on the switch that was on the engine the wires went no where. Just one to ground (black) and a brown one that was not connected to anything. There was a white wire which as you said was switched to +12v just as it would be if it went through the ignition switch. I think I have a diagram now that will work. Thanks a lot for the input. Dan
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 153
Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 9:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andre, I went back to the project today and sure enough I missed the little spade lug that a wire was on that went to a kill circuit. Thanks for the heads up. I will build this into my diagram that I document when I'm done. I'll bring that out and manage it through the NC contacts on the ignition switch. Their circuit also grounded the + wire on the regulator when key is in off position but I don't know why that would be necessary. Thanks, Dan
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Andre Blanchet
Member
Username: Ab318
QC
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1363
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 1:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dan,
My Honda came ready to go with the key switch, throttle, choke, and a oil level switch.
But I didn't use the Honda Key switch for the kill circuit.

With the Onan, with the wire used to feed the coil, all the safety condition are already there.
For me it was a lot easier to reverse the action from this wire with a NC relay to the kill circuit.

With the original Honda circuit the regulator was connected all the time.
I found an extremely small battery discharge from the regulator so I add a NO relay to disconnect it, just open, not to the ground.
Andre
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Dan Dillner
Member
Username: Captaindan
VT
Registered: 6-2010
Post Number: 154
Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 6:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andre, Yes probably there is a small leakage current through the diodes in the regulator. I would guess it would be quite small but over the winter if it is not used could drain the batt. The Onan circuit connects the reg output to the Batt + through the circuit breaker but the relay is not a bad idea. Thanks, Dan

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