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Angle kit for 54" blade

Weekend Freedom Machines » The WFM Archives » Restoration Forum - Hydrostatic Tractors Archive » Angle kit for 54" blade « Previous Next »

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Todd Hawes
Member
Username: Mechanos
MO
Registered: 10-2009
Post Number: 23
Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 9:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I decided I wanted to get a snow thrower for my 322 and kinda settled on a model 49. I found a smokin' deal on one just a few miles from my house while surfin' on Christmas night. Of course, I had to go out of town to my in-laws the next day and by the time I made it back into town today, the model 49 had already been sold.

So, I went out to get my old walk behind thrower and clear the drifts out of the driveway. As soon as I engaged the auger, it threw the chain, bound up the auger and killed the engine. About a half later, I had the chain back on and started clearing the driveway. Got the big drift at the end of the drive half way cleared and dang thing crapped the bed. This time it snapped the chain in two when it threw it.

Long story short... the old thing is too small for my new property, too old and worn out to justify fixing. But now that it's down & out, I have nothing but a shovel to work with and need something now. I've come across a couple of 54" blades for my 322, but the one that wouldn't require a ton driving to get to only has a lift cylinder and manual angling.

Is the hydraulic angle kit still available for these blades? Is it even worth converting a 2-way blade to a 4-way blade? I've found a 2-way and a 4-way and difference in price is about $175. Should I just hold out for the 4-way or convert the 2-way?
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Loren Vosberg Jr
Member
Username: Lorenjr
mn
Registered: 5-2006
Post Number: 546
Posted on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AL Zimmerman sell reproduction brackets for the 54 blade to convert to the 4 way. You would still need to find a cylinder and hoses though.
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JDF
Member
Username: Swampfox
CO
Registered: 11-2008
Post Number: 744
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 1:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brackets Approx.- $85
Hoses & Fittings Approx.- $50
John Deere Angle Cylinder- Approx. $300
Two way Blade- Approx. $250
Satisfaction of putting it all together- Pricele$$
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 24
Posted on Monday, December 28, 2009 - 7:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm in STL MO and got tired of waiting for one close enough. I made a trip last week and got 4-way blade for $300. cosmetically and mechanically it's in perfect shape I would say. Hardly any wear on mechanical parts and paint is original with stickers, etc.

Long story short, after connecting to my 318 I found that angle cylinder leaks. Not sure if it's time or what? Now I need to rebuild it. Guy seems to be thrustworthy, he haven't used it for a while and probably didn't even knew it leaks.

I read on this forum rebuild can be done by cutting cylinder on lathe and then replacing/rewelding. Is there DIY instructions somewhere? I have lathe and I can use torch and braze it back together(no welder)...
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Army
Member
Username: Army
ON
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 2794
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 5:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a pic of the parts needed to go with Jerry's price list.

angle_kit.jpg


Army
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 26
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 8:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JDF, Roundtrip is 200 miles. So, 300 for blade, 20 for gas and my time is priceless but I wanted to get it. I thought it's 320 but now I need to fix cylinder. If I go to shop - it will be $100. If I DIY then it will be just parts. I'm leaning towards DIY. Yesterday I got my lathe running (after move) and I think I can braze cylinder back together. Will give it a try..
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John Underwood
Member
Username: Junderwood
IL
Registered: 12-2002
Post Number: 245
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 9:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ivan,

Don't braze it back together. It won't hold and you'll probably get braze on the inside. Find someone that can weld it for you.
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robert jones
Member
Username: Jonesiera
In
Registered: 8-2008
Post Number: 21
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 9:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Al Zimmerman used to sell complete setup including Cyl and hoses. I would give him a call!
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 29
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

I don't necessary agree that braze won't hold. In fact I'm sure it will hold just fine. I'm more worried about overheating cylinder..
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Todd Hawes
Member
Username: Mechanos
MO
Registered: 10-2009
Post Number: 24
Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 7:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Al Z. still has the angle brackets listed on his website for $85. I've seen cylinders on ebay from time to time. So, dumb question of the day... are all the cylinders used on these tractors and attachement the same? Or are they specific to the attachment/application? I would have to do research to make sure I bought the correct cylinder.
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Tim Hattwick
Member
Username: Tim_hattwick
MD
Registered: 6-2009
Post Number: 33
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 9:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm doing the same conversion, piece-by-piece. I agree with JDF; the fun of DIY is priceless. I bought a pair of brackets from Al Z. and they look and fit great. There is an ebay store selling the cylinders (new) and claiming they work for both lift and angle. Based on their feedback it sounds OK. I think they're asking $97 plus shipping. Just do a 318 search. I'm ordering one this week.
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Bill Overcash
Member
Username: Bill_o
PA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 51
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 1:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just got lucky on a cylinder.Was listed as used in good condition and thought I would chance it,came today.Not used but new in a JD box.$40 + shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120507017719&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 30
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 1:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill,

I beleive cylinders is different for blade and rockshaft. At least PN is different.
Blade: AM31362
Rockshaft: AM116154

I ordered cylinder from eBay, this way I can disassemble and try to rebuild mine myself without worrying.
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Bill Overcash
Member
Username: Bill_o
PA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 52
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 2:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have two JD dealers within 25mi of me.One told me the cylinders are the same,questioned him about the different part numbers last year and he said it is because of two different pieces of equipment.Both cylinders have the same overall length closed with the same 4" stroke and same shaft diameter.On the 300 series he said they use whatever they have for either application and this dealer has been around for 50 + years.That's good enough for me.
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Chuck Van Dusen
Member
Username: Chuckv
OR
Registered: 1-2007
Post Number: 2815
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 2:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ivan and Bill,

According to JDParts the cylinders are different lengths, strokes and working pressures, but I suspect that either would FUNCTION in the blade angling application. The blade specific AM31362 is about $16 cheaper from Deere, but that is small consolation when one is $320.25 and the other is $336.00



Chuck
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 31
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 3:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe I'm thinking too much. I can see how rockshaft cylinder can be used in either application. However, in my 4 way blade angle cylinder leaking. And blade is in VERY good condition cosmetically. It was used to push dirt from what I see. I beleive angle cylinder takes some abuse in this application and 2000psi rating looks better then 1000psi
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Chris Reynolds
Member
Username: Reynocd
OH
Registered: 9-2006
Post Number: 77
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 4:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now for my 2 cents...both cylinders are the same on the blade but the rock-shaft is different. As for the leaking angle cylinder, is it actually leaking or will it just not hold an angle? If it just won't hold an angle it is because that port uses the same circuit as the rock shaft cylinder. You will need to put a shut-off valve on the rock-shaft. This will isolate the angle cylinder as the only cylinder on that circuit. Otherwise, the rockshaft is going to move before the blade angle and it won't hold an angle...I did this several years ago after talking to Dave Maslowski and haven't had that problem since. Just a basic hydraulic shut-off valve and fitting from TSC for $10-$15.
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Ivan Demk
Member
Username: Katit
MO
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 32
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 5:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris. It's leaking. I got lockout valve. It's leaking good ounce of oil if I operate blade left/right a few times..
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Todd Hawes
Member
Username: Mechanos
MO
Registered: 10-2009
Post Number: 25
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 - 7:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the specs Chuck. I needed a blade and couldn't wait for a 4-way, so I picked up a 2-way blade today. I am now on the hunt for an appropriate cylinder. I'm going to hold on getting the brackets until I can find a cylinder.
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Bill Overcash
Member
Username: Bill_o
PA
Registered: 9-2008
Post Number: 53
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well,the above mentioned cylinder that I bought off eBay came yesterday.It is now the angle cylinder on my 54" blade.Works flawlessly,plowed for about 1 1/2 hrs today,no difference in operation,we'll see what happens.
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Alan Nadeau
Member
Username: Alan
VT
Registered: 1-2006
Post Number: 917
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ivan, I agree with you on the strength of brazing being enough to hold the cylinder together. The problem will be in keeping the heat away from the seal on the piston. The cylinder is going to be exposed to heat a lot longer with the brazing process. Even welding it it would be wise to let it cool frequently. It would be the pits put one back together only to find out the piston seal was fried and have to do it all over again.

I'm inclined to think the pressure difference is a typo, somebody stroked the 9 instead of 0. Since these are regarded as a non-servicable cylinder there is no way to compare the internal parts but I'd bet they are the same in both.
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Chuck Van Dusen
Member
Username: Chuckv
OR
Registered: 1-2007
Post Number: 2818
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2009 - 8:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alan,

I agree with the typo theory. If it were that close to 2,000 PSI it would have been stated with all trailing zeroes...

The stroke and overall length differences are real, however.

Chuck
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JD 317
Member
Username: Jd_317
IN
Registered: 4-2007
Post Number: 79
Posted on Sunday, January 03, 2010 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This may be a dumb question, but why not buy the cheaper (used price) rockshaft cylinder, use it for the up and down, and put the existing cylinder on the angle if the length is slightly different? My 54 will lift my front 8" of the ground, which I NEVER really need, so if the new cylinder is a slightly, I don't see that it will matter.

Thoughts?

JD 317
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Tanner Clark
Member
Username: Glockem
VA
Registered: 10-2009
Post Number: 130
Posted on Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 1:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can you tell if your 4-way blade cylinders are leaking on the inside? I know this sounds like a dumb question, but I have noticed my front blade can't lift my 318 off the ground anymore, and when I use the vertical cylinder from closed to open (up to down), there is a brownish amber colored fluid on the chrome colored shaft. It is not spraying anywhere, but it seems to be leaking internally possibly? What do you think I should do?

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