Weekend Freedom Machines


 

Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help Member List Member List Register for Account Register for Account  
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View Clipart Clipart  

Hydraulic tiller variations

Weekend Freedom Machines » The WFM Archives » Restoration Forum - Hydrostatic Tractors Archive » Hydraulic tiller variations « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 202
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 3:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was reading a archived articles about hydraulic tillers http://tinyurl.com/7u3eh and it brought up a couple of questions.

I've recently obtained a 2000 RPM PTO for my 318 and was wondering if I could drive the hydraulic tiller pump off the 2000 RPM PTO?

If this is possible, is this something they did from the factory or a blacksmith job?

I've never sat down and figured the RPM the pump is driven at - is 2000 RPM an adequate shaft speed? Hmmm - then you have to take into consideration - is the direction of rotation correct from the PTO directly to the pump?

If it is a factory option where can I find it in jdparts.com?

By the way is there ANY simple way to find 'tillers' in jdparts.com???

Is there a cross reference catalog that would allow us to drill down from a global search?

Even though the parts website is a gold mine it seems to me it isn't the most user friendly when 'browsing' unless you know exactly what you are looking for. Some of us don't!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Fox
Member
Username: Michaeljd322
MO
Registered: 12-2003
Post Number: 77
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jim,that is how my hyd tiller is powered. Two belts hook the 2000 rpm pto up to the hyd pump!!

Works great, I like it. Changed mine over to a 3pt, back up, hook up, in about 3 or 4 minutes,it running! Sorry I do not have pics at this time. The machine is about 30 mile away! Could get some pics!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 280
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 4:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim:

I'm aware of two variations on the hydro tiller. The first is the belly pump arrangement of the 318-ish series. The second is the rear drive-shaft -> electric clutch -> double pulley arrangement for the 318-ish and 420-ish series. I don't believe there's a 2000-rpm pto variation.

rick n.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Fox
Member
Username: Michaeljd322
MO
Registered: 12-2003
Post Number: 78
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 4:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rick, mine is the latter, that runs off of the rear pto. Isn't that a 2000rpm, system?
Oh, I'm operating a 322.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kent "I have a bar tire fetish" Ortman
Moderator
Username: Kkortman112
IN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1916
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 5:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Michael. I did some researching awhile back on the 318 style "rear drives" and found that there are three variations. One is the 2000 PTO that includes an electric clutch and a cast gearcase, the second is the MCS collection system drive that includes the same electric clutch as the PTO but has a belt pulley on the end (just a single pulley though), and the third is the hydraulic tiller drive which is very similar to the MCS version except that it has a two groove belt pulley and the mounting bracket is made a little different to accept the hydraulic pump drive. So, unless you have the cast gearcase on the backside of your rear electric PTO clutch then you don't have the 2000 RPM PTO option. As Rick said, I have not found any info where the hydraulic tiller could be run off of the 2000 RPM rear PTO (although the MCS collection systems offered either as a drive option originally before going to using a seprate engine to power the blower fan).

Kent
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Fox
Member
Username: Michaeljd322
MO
Registered: 12-2003
Post Number: 79
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 6:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kent, as usual you are correct. It is the two groove pulley system. Sure like to operate on that 322, soft dirt, push the hydro leveler forward, pull you cap down and hang on...........
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Alan Anderson
Member
Username: Jd318cda
MB
Registered: 7-2004
Post Number: 67
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 8:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jim,
To mount and run a hydraulic tiller on your 318 you will have to remove your crankcase gearbox along with the coupler that attaches it to the rear electric PTO. You then have to mount the other coupler, bracket, bearing pulley assembly to it.
When you go to the JD Website under parts catologe you type in the catolog section # 1988. It will show 30 hydraulic tiller.
I will show you the set up with some pictures. My 318 came with the same set your has with the crankcase gearbox. I removed gearbox to mount my tiller on.
Bracket Assembly mounted to Diff
This is showing the bracket assembly mount the the rear diff.
closeup picture of the rear  bracket pulley assy
You cannot see the pulleys they are behind this bracket. The next picture I'll show the top view showing the the clutch, coupler,bracket and the pulley.
pulley, bracket, coupler, clutch

Another top view different angle of the assy

top veiw assy

This picture is showing the tiller pump being mounted to the pulley assy bracket
TILLER PUMP MOUNTED
The "Key Handle" goes through the pump bracket into the pulley assy bracket, then you twist it down to lock it in place in the lower hitch. (cam affect)
There is a word of advise when you buy a hydraulic tiller, make sure you get the UPPER and LOWER mounting brackets with it (that bolt on to the tractor.)
UPPER MOUNTING BRACKETS
The upper brackets are bolted on the outside of the rockerarm shaft.
LOWER  RIGHT BRACKET
LOWER LEFT BRACKET
These two brackets just bolt on underneath to the rear end.
One more thing I would suggest is that you change the rear drive shaft yoke to the heavey duty one that was also an option.
HEAVEY DUTY  U JOINT
I hope this cleared things up a bit more.
If you click on my name you'll see my tiller mounted on my 318.
Alan

(Message edited by robb318 on September 22, 2008)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Alan Anderson
Member
Username: Jd318cda
MB
Registered: 7-2004
Post Number: 68
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 8:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,
If you still want to use your rear PTO gearbox setup, you'll have to get the mech. tiller.
Which you will have to get a 3pt hitch, if you don't have one.
Alan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 305
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check the pic of my rear PTO under "JD322...busted rearend" thread. My rear PTO is driven through an electric clutch, just as the one above, but instead of a doble belt as pictured above, mine is a gear drive in a case case with a female receiver for the splined shaft of the hydraulic pump unit.

The pump unit is stabilized from rotating by a metal flange that slips inside the the rear PTO shield (not shown)mounted on the PTO case itself.

The tiller mounts on the 3 pt, the splined shaft of the pump slips in and locks into the receiver of the PTO drive. 2-3 minutes on and off...tops! Gadget
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 310
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 9:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another pic of the rear PTO on the 322. This one shows the shield...
Rear PTO on 322
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kent "I have a bar tire fetish" Ortman
Moderator
Username: Kkortman112
IN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1917
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 5:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Gadget. Pictures please :-) As far as the parts book goes the #30 hydraulic tiller was never offered with a 3pt mount or a 2000 RPM rear PTO drive pump, BUT I do remember from the Yahoo Club days a guy that converted his to a 3pt style of lift fairly easily (and he might have used factory parts from a later hydraulic tiller, I don't remember right now). Still not sure how your pump was done though, as all the later series of tractors went to a 540 RPM rear PTO drive. Like I said though, pictures of the tiller mountings and pictures of the pump would be much appriciated......

Kent
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 204
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man ask questions and you sure get answers. It's hard to stump you guys isn't it?



I think Mr.Gadget has the routine I was looking for. Thanks for all the other posts guys - appreciate the help.

I have a belly mount pump now with a 3-point hitch on my 30"+extension hydraulic tiller setup. I can see later on that belly mount is not going to be the way to go as I get older and the joints stiffen up.

Gadget - can you post more up close and personal pictures so I can see what needs to be done to 'emulate' your rig.

If I read your post correctly you have a splined shaft that fits the pump shaft and goes into the 2000 RPM PTO receiver?

Maybe could you post the parts list required and or numbers etc.

Everything I've been able to come up with makes me think that pump turns about crank speed on the JD designed mounts. Was any provision made for this? Or am I out in left field on the pump speeds?

Do you think this mount may have been a contributing factor to the broken rear end in the other thread at http://tinyurl.com/9y9nt ??

Thanks in advance for your help and interest in my questions.

JQ
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 318
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim, Kent, and All: My rear PTO is a step down gear case that outputs at 2000 rpm. The hydraulic pump for the tiller has a fine spline (20 some odd splines) male shaft that plugs into the female receiver splines of the PTO and lock in by means of a ball and lock ring mechanism.

The pump has a U shaped flange the faces forward to either side of the pump shaft |_| that is just as wide as the inside width of the PTO shield. The shaft itself supports and drives the pump, the flange just prevents the pump body from rotating. It's kinda like the rear hydraulic pump setup you saw on grandpa's Farmall H to operate the FE loader.

I'm going in to Brian's tomorrow to tear into the 317 with the FE loader, I'll get some pics of the tiller while I'm there. Might even try to lighten them up before I post them! Gadget
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 205
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Gadget

I'm holding my breath waiting to see the pictures.

Where did you come come up with that spline shaft that fits on the pump?

(Message edited by jq730d on February 04, 2006)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 320
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here ya go...
One
Two
Three
Four
Five

GO SEAHAWKS
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 321
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 7:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more of the rear PTO...
Rear PTO - Butt shot
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 208
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 9:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Gadget

Thanks.

It's amazing what you can learn just looking at pictures of how someone else "did it."

Looks like just what I want to do to. Did you make this conversion yourself?

Got any idea where a guy could get shaft like that you have on the pump?

Thanks again.

JQ

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kent "I have a bar tire fetish" Ortman
Moderator
Username: Kkortman112
IN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1923
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Gadget. Very interesting setup there. JD should have offered a hydraulic tiller that way from the factory. I assume you can still switch the hitch around to the other side of the tiller so that you can counter-rotate the tines, just like the factory hydraulic tillers?

Kent
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bob Pavelock
Member
Username: Bob_p
NY
Registered: 11-2004
Post Number: 40
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Almost looks to simple compared to how JD designed it. 3pt is the way to go!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 325
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 7:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim Q - You're right "Someone else did it"! I bought the tractor used from my JD dealer in Seward. They had gotten in on trade from a property management company. I had told him then I wanted a 3pt for it and to keep his ear to the ground.

He called me a week later to say their Crete, NE store had just received another 322 from a lawn service company that had a 3pt and a hydraulic tiller. I made a deal with him over the phone to accept both for one money.

Once I got there to pick it up, I discovered that the hydraulic tiller required the rear PTO. After a short phone call and some quick negotiating, the rear PTO off the other tractor became part of the deal.

It was only after their mechanic had removed all the associate parts off their second tractor and I had likewise installed them onto mine that it occurred to me that I could have simply traded tractors!

So, who came up with this configuration? If it wasn't John Deere, then I don't know... I just know I like it! Gadget
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robb Kruger - Where the Buck stops.
Board Administrator
Username: Robb318
MN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1702
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 8:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gadget... You and I talked about this when you were at Travis' last year... Nice to see pics.

Kent, check out PC2697. That is for te 42" hyd tiller for the 400 series. I thought that the conversion I remember used the mounts from the new style tiller...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 329
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rob - That's the belly mount pump bracket, with the long hoses, right? I sure looks like it would be an easy conversion to drive it off a rear PTO such as mine... Gadget
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robb Kruger - Where the Buck stops.
Board Administrator
Username: Robb318
MN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1705
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, but for the mid PTO on a 425,45,55 tractor.

I pulled the pics out of the completed items on eBay.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Bruce Wolferz
Member
Username: Bwolf
NJ
Registered: 11-2005
Post Number: 10
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 6:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Gadget, Not to get to far off subject, but would you mind sharing some info on those rear tires on your 322? Size, brand, is that the stock 8.5 inch wide rim?

Thanks,
Bruce
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

rick nicholson "I need a 430 that whistles!"
Member
Username: Rfn
in
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 287
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 6:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robb & Mr Gadget:

IIRC the mid-mount pto on the 425/445/455 + X-series is 2000-rpm (Help Terry or Kent!) but it rotates opposite in direction to the 2000 rpm pto on the late 300 series. So there might be some pump problems.

rick n.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jim Quarles
Member
Username: Jq730d
MO
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 210
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guys,

Rats! that confirms my suspicions about my tiller. Talk about a parts bin special. It's a 30" with the 12" extension. It has a 3-point hitch that looks like the #42 tiller hitch. (I sure like the looks of that hitch on Gadget's though) The pump and original pump mounting equipment is like the picture Rob supplied from e-bay. I guess someone kept their old tiller and converted it when they traded for a newer tractor.

Now before I get hot about driving my pump with a shaft I'll have to find a pump that turns the OTHER way. That does confirm why there are pumps with two different parts numbers on these hydraulic rigs.

I've never done anything like this before (never needed to) but I have heard you can reverse the pump rotation by changing or flipping the position of the pumps center housing? Anyone know about this? I've never looked at one or thought about it before?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kent "I have a bar tire fetish" Ortman
Moderator
Username: Kkortman112
IN
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 1925
Posted on Tuesday, February 07, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi All.

Robb K.- Yes, I thought that a newer tiller used a 3pt but I have never looked through the parts books to do part number comparison. Sounds like a good project for this weekend.

Rick N.- I just don't know too much about the 425 and later tractors to know the mid PTO speed or rotation.....

Kent
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sam gamble (JD 318 and 44 loader)
Member
Username: Sam_gamble
VA
Registered: 6-2004
Post Number: 111
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 7:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr Gadget ... are you from Seward ?? My uncle was police chief there many years ... Lyle Gamble ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr.Gadget
Member
Username: Mrgadget
NE
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 354
Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2006 - 9:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Sam, I'm about 15 east of Seward near Garland, west side of Branched Oak Lake. I don't know Lyle personally, but being on the G.V.F.D., I have heard the name many times.
"Puttin' the wet stuff on the red stuff"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sam gamble (JD 318 and 44 loader)
Member
Username: Sam_gamble
VA
Registered: 6-2004
Post Number: 214
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 9:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bill and Arthur,
The Model 30 tiller is the hydraulic tiller for the 318. There was several options to drive the hydraulic pump. One was a belly mount belt driven from the front electric PTO in about the same position as a mower deck. The other drive has a splined shaft that drives from the rear of the hydro transmission like the 2000 RPM optional rear PTO, but the tiller drive doesn't have the gear box so the pump is driven at a different RPM than 2000. An electric clutch and a drive shaft with 2 pulleys stays mounted on the tractor. a plate with a quick disconnect feature installs the pump driven with 2 belts with a twist of an installation tool. I'm a little confused if a 3 pt mount was ever offered specifically for the 318 but the mount parts from the 42" hydraulic tiller for a model 400 tractor will work I believe. Check out this link:

http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/17/92784.html

Here's the 3 pt mount I'm building for my 318. I'm waiting on some more metal to fab the triangle portion for the top link and diagonal braces back to the tiller.






(Message edited by robb318 on September 22, 2008)

(Message edited by robb318 on September 22, 2008)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Arthur Atkinson
Member
Username: Aratki
AL
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 13
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 9:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just checked my user manual for the 30inch tiller for a 318, bought in 86, and it is a 9 gpm belly mount pump, operating at 2000 psi. I have not measured, but the pulley looks about the same size as the front pto pulley on the engine. Is it possible that the rear mount pump for the 2000 rpm pto was a different pump to adjust for the different speed? If it is a rear belt drive pto for the tiller, the drive from the rear of the transmission will be engine speed,i think.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page