| Author |
Message |
    
Chris Neal (WFM Registry Police Chief)
Member
Username: Smurfslayer
Iowa (IA)
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 2924
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 2:43 pm: | 
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I know there has been a lot of discussion on re-powers over the years...
I've got a 316 with a P220 in it that smokes. It needs rings, valve seals or maybe a rebuild. It runs fine but burns oil.
Nobody locally wants to touch it?
It seems that a piston is about $100, a rod is about $100, so that would be a little more than $450 with tax and shipping. I believe the pistons come with rings. I'm not sure they are Onan parts, I believe that they are a third party trying to fill the need since Onan small engines is no more.
So, what are people doing?
Do I run it in "high maint mode", checking the oil a lot and stuff, and then replace it with a repower when it "goes"?
Do I take it out now and sell the parts off it for ones that don't have problems and re-power now?
I'm interested in comments from folks who have actually had a blown Onan or are in my situation where that is immenent...
I see there are several repower "kits" out there from a Kohler Command 18/20 to a 24HP Honda...
Obviously $500 in parts plus some labor is a lot cheaper than $2,000 for a repower.
And I thought Kohler OEM parts were expensive 10 years ago....
Thoughts?
Thanks,
-Chris |
Ken Rosinski
Member
Username: Ken_rosinski
Mi
Registered: 7-2011
Post Number: 7
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 2:53 pm: |
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I'm haveing my onan rebuilt by this small shop this is all they do is rebuild onans. Randy is the owner, comes with warrenty, all onan parts also. This shop is located in Michigan he ships all over the country though, give him A call 989-220-5432. |
Ken Combs
Member
Username: Kencombs
ok
Registered: 2-2008
Post Number: 140
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:12 pm: |
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I think all the replacement hard parts are 'real' Onan. While the engines are no longer available, new parts are still in production. I'm unaware of any aftermarket parts for Onans.
I'm one of the few that champion rebuilding. After all, the first one did 20-30 years duty and did it well. Most of the ones I've seen can be returned to service for about 1/2 the cost of a repower.
Yours likely has a good crank, no machine work needed. Bores are probably useable too. If so, you can get it done in a short while and for not
a lot of cash. check at onanparts.com.}} |
Dan Ely
Member
Username: Dan_ely
WA
Registered: 11-2010
Post Number: 337
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:30 pm: |
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Chris,
I�ve bought 3 Onan powered tractors that all needed to be rebuilt. All the previous owners decided to sell the tractors vs rebuild them, but it was because they had taken them to a shop and when you start factoring in $95 an hour labor cost it doesn�t become very cost effective to rebuild. I personally do all the work myself and have very good relations with a machine shop. So I usually get off rebuilding one for much less than half of a repower and I really like keeping things as original as I can. And like already stated these engines held up this long so why not give them another chance. But I do see the appeal of repowering and for some it defiantly makes sense. |
Mike Meyer
Member
Username: 7dad34
Illinois
Registered: 3-2007
Post Number: 1802
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:42 pm: |
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I'm having my Onan rebuilt for my latest 318. It will be half the cost of a replacement, I know everything will work and the engine was designed for the tractor. It only matters to me what engine is in there, not gonna argue with anyone if they like original v repower. It's their money and tractor....and...lastly, as it was argued to me...if it's not a show tractor, nobody will run up and ask you if that's the stock motor in there . Now if it's a show queen, that is entirely different. |
Dan Hosler
Member
Username: Dan_hosler
IN
Registered: 4-2009
Post Number: 71
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 7:14 pm: |
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I have been in both situations - rebuild and repower. Each case was a little different:
Rebuild - I was given a 316 with a blown connecting rod. I chose the rebuild because the parts at the time totaled about $465 (2 rods, rings, gaskets). I didn't need a machine shop to repair the block, so my labor was cheap. At the time, I considered this 316 to be a "dispensable" tractor. That is, I didn't consider it a good fit for my 3 acres and thought I would eventually "trade up".
Repower - I bought a 420 with smoking/leaking P220 knowing it would have to be rebuilt or repowered. I chose repower because I bought it for such a steal, and because I consider it my "keeper" tractor. It is everything I need in a garden tractor right now, so the extra money for a repower was the right decision for me.
Hopefully this will provide some insights for you.
(By the way - I never have "traded up" that 316 - it just runs too nicely!) |
Tanner Clark
Member
Username: Glockem
VA
Registered: 10-2009
Post Number: 338
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 7:46 pm: |
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I just rebuilt my 1987 420 Onan P220 and got all my parts from TJ at www.onanparts.com
It now is running very strong and I built it balanced enough that both cylinders are hitting at 110-115 psi. I feel I did a good job to, and saved an Onan engine again.
Great prices and very helpful. A rebuild is so easy, and it is a great learning experience for you as well. |
Mike Meyer
Member
Username: 7dad34
Illinois
Registered: 3-2007
Post Number: 1803
| | Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:10 pm: |
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Thanks Tanner !
After my last post...I was trying to remember the website...dang tricky one that is...that, and there always seems to be the onan guy that will jump in and give his website, that might be it. |
Darrin Behm
Member
Username: Dirtweed
NY
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 1592
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 5:44 am: |
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Chris
Eric just rebuilt my Onan in my 420 and the one in his 420 last summer. The rebuilds were great and even with machining costs it was much cheaper than a re-power.
We got all of our parts at onanparts.com and were really happy with the service.
Yes there are pros and cons to both rebuilding and repowering, a certain WFM member and others will be on here soon singing the praises of a repower and not
wasting time and money on rebuilding these old junk Onan.
If you can get away with a cheaper rebuild with a few parts and have that Onan running for many years to come it is worth going ahead with the rebuild rather than
a new repowered engine. |
Andre Blanchet
Member
Username: Ab318
QC
Registered: 1-2005
Post Number: 1605
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 6:43 am: |
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Chris,
The problem with a rebuilt is you never know where to stop.
The previous owner of my 318 put new oversize piston and did a good job valve.
Then I had problem with the gas supply, then a air intake leak.
Finally I think the camshaft don't turn anymore.
I put a new Honda 24 and this is the best investment ever made on this tractor.
BTW, another one here...
http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/17/204620.html?1337076366
Also with a new engine, the parts should be easier to find for the next 25 years.
Andre  |
Jordan Hiesterman
Member
Username: X720drw
KS
Registered: 1-2012
Post Number: 27
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 8:12 am: |
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I really enjoyed my onan, and I wanted to rebuild it but I had trouble finding someone to do it. I wanted to go through it myself but was told by a machine shop that the governor was a nightmare to install or adjust not sure what he was meaning. That was obviously his opinion, and I'm sure some say it is easy to do. I also like to order from a person on the phone and onanparts.com has no phone number on there web page. Then there was the option of a rebuilt long block off ebay from kustom small engine for $1300. They say timing is everything, If I would have been told about randy in michigan I would have pursued that. |
B.A. Babbitt
Member
Username: Bo2009
IN.
Registered: 11-2009
Post Number: 377
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 1:48 pm: |
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Chris,
If you end up choosing the rebuild route on your Onan engine: if I were you I'd heed Chuck's advice & replace the ignition control module & the rotor while the engine was out of the tractor. More $$ yes, but could prevent a future headache. Bobo |
Darrin Behm
Member
Username: Dirtweed
NY
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 1593
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 2:21 pm: |
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BA Babbitt hit it on the head with the ignition control and rotor. Had to pull my 420 motor AGAIN
to install them to keep it from stalling.
D |
Army
Member
Username: Army
ON
Registered: 6-2005
Post Number: 4345
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 10:15 am: |
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Still got that 420 Darrin? That's a really nice tractor.
Army |
Darrin Behm
Member
Username: Dirtweed
NY
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 1594
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 12:27 pm: |
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Still have the 420 Army, but not for long. It is going up on the for sale section soon.
D |
Jordan Hiesterman
Member
Username: X720drw
KS
Registered: 1-2012
Post Number: 30
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 1:35 pm: |
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Darrin, why are you thinking about selling your 420? Sounds like you have a good one. |
Darrin Behm
Member
Username: Dirtweed
NY
Registered: 7-2006
Post Number: 1595
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 1:40 pm: |
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It really is a nice one, everything up front is new in it.
I'm clearing out my tractors just keeping what I really need.
D |
Jordan Hiesterman
Member
Username: X720drw
KS
Registered: 1-2012
Post Number: 31
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 1:45 pm: |
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Understand, we have to do that sometimes. |
Chris Neal (WFM Registry Police Chief)
Member
Username: Smurfslayer
Iowa (IA)
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 2925
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 12:44 pm: |
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Sorry I couldn't back to the thread sooner, I've been super busy.
Wow! Lots of good comments. I really intended on rebuilding it, or getting it rebuilt.
I've done lots of car engines, but only one small engine. It was a 10HP Kohler out of a square fender 110. It was pretty easy to do, and ran great.
I'm a little nervous about the two cylinder split case, but wanted to try it.
And since I wanted to rebuild it, I had parked it since it smoked to keep it from having more "damage" to the internals...
I will check in to the suggestions already made. Anyone else want to throw in anything?
I'd always prefer a rebuild. Plus I went through the motions to put this engine in. It was a B43E and I put the P220 in to it. So rebuilding it protects the initial investment too.
If it was blown up, a re-power is probably the only option, or get another and rebuild it.
Thanks,
-Chris |
Gary Haynes
Member
Username: G_haynes
IN
Registered: 11-2007
Post Number: 55
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 1:52 pm: |
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Chris, The Onan engines are one piece castings, not split crankcases as with the Kohler 2 cylinders of that period. Get yourself a manual and that, combined with your auto experience, I'm sure you could fly right through it..........Gary |
Chris Neal (WFM Registry Police Chief)
Member
Username: Smurfslayer
Iowa (IA)
Registered: 1-2002
Post Number: 2930
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 2:50 pm: |
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Really?
Of all the small engine places I talked to, none of them mentioned that it wasn't a split case when I mentioned it... hmmm...
Thanks.
-Chris |
REY
Member
Username: Rey
TX
Registered: 11-2008
Post Number: 275
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 2:55 pm: |
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Chris,
Rebuild. If not because I have too many projects, I would go and pick up a 316 Onan, that is in really bad shape, but since it's such a rare tractor, it's worth having. I too like to keep my tractors with John Deere parts. I recommend you keep that Onan!!! |
Cliff Harms
Member
Username: Charms
MB
Registered: 5-2005
Post Number: 1197
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2012 - 4:36 pm: |
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I've had quite a few Onans apart, and even put some together successfully. There's nothing overly complex about them. Definitely not a split case. The governor is very different than a Kohler, and has a few things to watch out for, but certainly not a nightmare. |
Mike Overbey
Member
Username: Mikeoverbey
IL
Registered: 10-2007
Post Number: 324
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 7:39 am: |
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Chris,
I don't know why they mentioned the governor. There have been some failures, so there are simple things to check when apart. As far as putting it back together, you just have to follow directions and put the peg in the hole....that's it.
The hardest part is the crank gear. It's press fit onto the crank. You NEED to buy the JD legs puller, or get some gr 8 10-32 bolts for your puller. If you have a torch, even a small oxy/mapp torch, it will come off even easier as you heat and expand the gear. Google Onan crank gear and look at the images and articles on what people have done. You'll want the tech service manual too. With your experience, you'll have no problem and will have a better understanding of what is under that green sheet metal making that wonderful Onan grunt!
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=137400
http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/335/123838.html
Mike |
Trpshoot
Member
Username: Trpshoot
IN
Registered: 4-2009
Post Number: 67
| | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 3:49 pm: |
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I decided on a vanguard re-power and love it. I was going to part out my still running Onan but ended up selling it whole for $500.00. I had a very candid conversation with the gentleman who bought it and explained the amount of oil consumption and the smoke, etc... He still wanted it.
So for me, the re-power was closer to $1100.00 out of pocket.
Part of what you need to consider for your individual situation is how much for a complete rebuild of your onan vs. say just rings, etc...
A complete rebuild that will get you another 1500 hours costs what? $800 dollars or more? I don't know for sure, I just know the van guards have a great reputation and are easy to rebuild. I have close to 100 hours on mine now without issue. It just works... |
